Comments on Bannable Offenses: Just... Just Stop Already

Autumn said...> I'm sorry I'm so selfis...

2008-11-25T21:01:00.000-08:00

Autumn said...
> I'm sorry I'm so selfish that I
>want the right to visit my (sadly
>hypothetical) partner in the
>hospital or have her visit me
>without any kind of hassle;

I'm not going to argue about the rest of it, but I have to disabuse you of this notion: hospitals hassle legally married people, too. At least they did in my case, refusing to take me to the exam room my wife was in on one occasion and refusing to discharge either her or my daughter into our care on another occasion. It took physically removing doctors and orderlies from my path and DARING their security to attempt to throw me out to get them to back down. Perhaps it's just that hospital, maybe it's even just me, but the amount of racial and gender discrimination I put up with through the 10 months of my wife's pregnancy were unacceptable by any reasonable standards.

You can bet that if I were black or Native Alaskan that kind of treatment would have been responded to with litigation. But, being the heterosexual white guy that I am, I'm too far in the minority to even have a case. Go figure.

So, there's one problem that marriage doesn't solve for you, no matter how gay or straight you are. Yes, we are happily married and no, my wife didn't make any requests to disallow any of this.

You're right, I suppose I'm not very supportive of Transgenders. I used the label simply because that's the accepted title. I'm not going to try and justify my position, preferring instead to let you have your opinion all to yourself.

Oh, leave [GM]Dave alone about his use of "he/she" and "it" when talking about trangenders. He's doing the best he can with a language that doesn't currently have any neuter (as in non-gender specific) pronouns.

Robert: I wasn't addressing the biology. Frankly, ...

2008-11-25T19:01:00.000-08:00

Robert: I wasn't addressing the biology. Frankly, I won't get into it. I was attempting to address the philosophical question of how someone who considers himself a man could choose to bear a child. Perhaps I should have added something about artificial wombs being available to further hammer home the point, but I didn't really want to get into science fiction.

That said -- you call yourself supportive of GLBT interests, and yet you insist that a female-to-male transsexual is a 'castrated woman' and a male-to-female transsexual is a eunuch. That would seem to imply that you shouldn't really call yourself supportive of the 'T' part of the equation. And your comments on gay marriage -- wow, I'm sorry we sound selfish to you. I'm sorry I'm so selfish that I want the right to visit my (sadly hypothetical) partner in the hospital or have her visit me without any kind of hassle; that I'm selfish enough to want my partner taken care of if I die; that I want any children we might have to be recognized as children to the both of us wherever we might go in this country; that I'm so selfish that I want everyone to have access to the numerous benefits associated with marriage on a state and federal level. Please, Robert, show me these 'selfish' arguments you refer to, because it honestly sounds like you're saying if we weren't so damn uppity, maybe people would like us better. I think a few other folks have heard that kind of thing before. Sad to say, that's just not how social change works. Social change involves making waves. Civil disobedience. Public protests. Getting in people's faces. It doesn't involve sitting down and shutting up and hoping the government will get around to giving you your rights on a silver platter.

And y'know what? I don't agree with Thomas Beatie's message. Honestly, I don't know what the hell he thinks his message is. But clearly there's a need for a certain awareness of transgender issues, just as there's a need for awareness of gay and lesbian issues. So I can't exactly fault trans activists for standing up and demanding to be recognized. I wish Mr. Beatie wasn't passing himself off as the first pregnant man (even by his own standards, not true), and I wish he wasn't pushing himself into the spotlight seemingly just for the sake of fame. But in general principle, quiet, "well-behaved" people don't change a damn thing.

Autumn said...>And would it really make you any...

2008-11-24T20:03:00.000-08:00

Autumn said...
>And would it really make you any
>less of a man to accept that
>opportunity?

Biologically speaking: YES.

Uterus + ovaries = female gonads.

Ergo, if you equipped with these organs, you are biologically female. That's just the way it is, and no amount of hurt feelings or wishful thinking will change it. Even surgery won't change the fact that she has two X chromosomes.

I'm as supportive of GLBT interests as anyone else (and probably more than most considering how many of my friends are gay), but when people go out of their way to sensationalize themselves or their plight in this way they lose my sympathy. I just can't back that kind of hypocrisy, and I can't blame [GM]Dave for not wanting to either. I feel the same way about the whole gay marriage thing: I totally support it when two people who are in love want to formalize their bond with marriage, but many of the arguments I've see put forth by activists who are trying to change the laws have struck me as a whole lot of selfishness. That puts people off, but I digress and editorialize. Back on subject:

If I haven't pissed you and Liz off enough already, consider this: a woman who has had her reproductive organs and breasts removed and replaced with the facsimile of the male gonads is STILL not male because gender is determined at the DNA level. For lack of a better word, she's just a castrated woman.

There may not be a word to describe that kind of woman in the English language, but there does exist a word to describe a man who has had similar surgery:

EUNUCH

Henry: Because his wife is infertile. If you and y...

2008-11-24T10:23:00.000-08:00

Henry: Because his wife is infertile. If you and your wife really wanted kids -- kids that were biologically descended from one of you, at least -- and she couldn't bear them, but, somehow, you could, wouldn't you at least consider it? And would it really make you any less of a man to accept that opportunity?

It's worth noting that Beatie isn't the first female-to-male transsexual to do this, either; and again, in the other cases, extenuating circumstances have come into play.

>He is a male. He was just born with>the wro...

2008-11-24T01:57:00.000-08:00

>He is a male. He was just born with
>the wrong body...think of it as a
>birth defect.

uh... then why does he want to get pregnant? Doesn't sound like a man to me.

I agree completely with Autumn. [GM]Dave, you've b...

2008-11-23T02:43:00.000-08:00

I agree completely with Autumn. [GM]Dave, you've been my hero for awhile, but this post made me stop, kind of. The pregnant man story is bullshit - they really gave it too much hype and transpeople are getting the wrong kind of attention for it. It's stupid and shouldn't be news. But this person, like all all female-to-male transexuals, is not choosing to live as a male. He is a male. He was just born with the wrong body...think of it as a birth defect.

I love your posts, [GM]Dave, they're hilarious and you own the world with your dragon of doom and witty retellings. And hey, callous behavior towards any group at any time is part of this blog, I suppose. but this post just seemed ignorant, which surprised me, because you seem like a smart individual if nothing else. There's nothing so bad as calling a transman "she", except maybe to call him "it". Maybe this one transman in particular is a bad example of manliness, but that's no reason to treat the matter like this. I lost a little respect today when I read this.

And yeah, I know, it's pointless and you really don't care what I think, but all the same, I wanted to say it.

I kind of wish the media weren't making such a big...

2008-11-22T10:33:00.000-08:00

I kind of wish the media weren't making such a big deal out of this, too, but can I just say that it's astonishingly rude and insulting to refer to a transperson as 'it' and 'he/she'? Yes, yes, I know, astonishingly rude and insulting is your thing, the whole pregnant man thing is bullshit that's frankly gone too damn far, and believe me, there are plenty of LGBT activists who wish the furor would just die down already, too, but...speaking as an activist myself...this post really put me off. I'm not going to say I'll stop reading or anything, but it gave me pause.

It may be completely pointless for me to say this. I just didn't feel I could let it go unsaid.

...I suppose there is one advantage to not having ...

2008-11-21T18:03:00.000-08:00

...I suppose there is one advantage to not having a TV hookup in my apartment anymore - I don't get exposed to this "news", just the endless mocking of it.

Yeah...we took this one apart months ago over on a...

2008-11-20T23:33:00.000-08:00

Yeah...we took this one apart months ago over on a GLBTA web site that my friend owns:

http://www.akcommunity.com/index.php/topic,1228.0.html

Dave, you so just got quoted in the entirety of your post. XD

@ShadowYes, it was news months ago. The funny thi...

2008-11-20T22:16:00.000-08:00

@Shadow

Yes, it was news months ago. The funny thing is, she decided to get pregnant again.

@Cockenaden:Because this crap sells better...

2008-11-20T20:21:00.000-08:00

@Cockenaden:
Because this crap sells better...

I have the same problem with stuff like this being...

2008-11-20T19:38:00.000-08:00

I have the same problem with stuff like this being passed off as news as I do with the Second Life divorce ridiculousness being passed off as news.

People are still talking about this? Wasn't this l...

2008-11-20T18:48:00.000-08:00

People are still talking about this? Wasn't this like months ago? I thought it was hilarious, but not exactly big news or anything.

Oh, that dude was a woman? Ignorance is bliss i gu...

2008-11-20T17:55:00.000-08:00

Oh, that dude was a woman? Ignorance is bliss i guess.

But I agree with you on this, why are reputable news networks reporting crap like these when there are more news-worthy or important issues to talk about or report.