Comments on Bannable Offenses: The Aftermath

Thanks for sharing this valuable information to ou...

2022-04-12T00:51:03.627-07:00

Thanks for sharing this valuable information to our vision. You have posted a trust worthy blog keep sharing.Nice article i was really impressed by seeing this article, it was very interesting and it is very useful for me..

python internship | web development internship |internship for mechanical engineering students |mechanical engineering internships |java training in chennai |internship for 1st year engineering students |online internships for cse students |online internship for engineering students |internship for ece students|data science internships |

Yotevol: first reply didnt go through?anyway, I ba...

2009-01-28T22:26:00.000-08:00

Yotevol: first reply didnt go through?
anyway, I basically was just referring to all the other people using WoW as a comparison, and saying how there are even more differences, therefore making it a bad comparison.
Yea... way too many differences to suggest that some arbitrary fix could be applied the same way

@Music-ChanCritical? You take a warning, said in j...

2009-01-28T12:47:00.000-08:00

@Music-Chan

Critical?
You take a warning, said in jest, critical?

Sounds like someone takes things a bit too serious to me.

I'm not sure if you have read [GM] Dave's previous experience with the mention of the WoW game, but allow me to explain:
His GF/wife (not sure at the time) bought a demo for WoW and he went into convusltions and contemplated killing her.

Now, we both know that he loves her and wouldn't kill her, but his aversion is clear. My statement was to enlighten our friend so as not to provoke ensuing insults.

How is that critical?

~Yote

Yotevol: The guy was responding to the other comm...

2009-01-28T10:14:00.000-08:00

Yotevol: The guy was responding to the other comments and there's nothing wrong with that. You need to learn not to be so critical.

Haha, man Yotevol, you're so dangerously blunt. Go...

2009-01-28T07:53:00.000-08:00

Haha, man Yotevol, you're so dangerously blunt. Go Asura with the highest ban count!

I'd say the bannings were the fastest way to solve the issue than knocking out individual parts because(and I think some people are confused on this)the salvage pieces are comprised of 3 seperate units to make 1 high leveled piece. In 5 slots... (Head, Body, Hands, Legs, Feet) that's breaking 5 pieces back in to 3 pieces each... for 950 people, which is.. 3x5=15x950 lets say? Which would be... 14,250 pieces each with coding, NOT EVEN COUNTING THE COMPLETED PIECE! I won't lie; if my math is totally "blow your mind!" terrible, forgive me. I'm much more proficient at English subjects than math, lol, But the math + the coding for them = head exploding.

But seriously, i'm glad that the majority of those banned are actually taking responsiblity for their actions. Hat's off to you all.
To those that haven't. Move on and find a new MMO.

Like Maple Story. You can't get that one wrong!

Wonderfully amusing as always, props [GM]Dave.I am...

2009-01-27T23:58:00.000-08:00

Wonderfully amusing as always, props [GM]Dave.

I am confused about something though, why is this "conversation" on how right it was even here? Are you people this stupid? ToS is cut and dry. ToS was broken over greed and stupidity. The Scum (I'm being kind) that lost 100+ relic weapons over greed deleted. Game is that much better off in every single way, still brings a smile to my face knowing certain players will never be seen again. And got a damn good laugh out of it for days. Total win in every way.

You want to know why people were banned with extre...

2009-01-27T16:38:00.000-08:00

You want to know why people were banned with extreme prejudice and not just given a temp suspension?

It's because after they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar they bragged about it on BG and dared SE to do anything about it. They actually said SE was too dumb to catch them.

Publicly taunting SE on a public forum with your actual character name and server listed on the post after you've broken the TOS = bad idea.

Please Henry, don't compare the 2 games except to ...

2009-01-27T13:26:00.000-08:00

Please Henry, don't compare the 2 games except to say that they are both MMORPGs.

It's probably best that you read [GM] Dave's thoughts on WoW prior to even mentioning it in the thread... just a warning.

~Yotevol

Something about the WoW comparison....WoW PVP gear...

2009-01-27T12:50:00.000-08:00

Something about the WoW comparison....
WoW PVP gear can't be traded (I'm assuming that FFXI can?) so removing the items were a lot easier and didn't have to involve reversing trades and such. And as other people have said, no trickery was involved, the regular vendors just said "lol free stuff" and people took it

Delightfully entertaining, once again!I'm sorry yo...

2009-01-27T11:54:00.000-08:00

Delightfully entertaining, once again!

I'm sorry you didn't feed Jormy.
He would have been set for weeks with this number of people!

Oh and if you get the chance to take any gear from those that were "temp" banned, please add your personal flair! :-D

~Yotevol

http://www.gopetition.com/online/24821.htmlFor tho...

2009-01-27T10:01:00.000-08:00

http://www.gopetition.com/online/24821.html

For those interested

His point is if campaign can have a uniqueness to ...

2009-01-26T21:36:00.000-08:00

His point is if campaign can have a uniqueness to it, why is it so far-fetched that salvage could have one too? (The cross-alliance casting of bard songs)

2009-01-26T21:23:00.000-08:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

On about SE not warning the player base, I remembe...

2009-01-26T21:03:00.000-08:00

On about SE not warning the player base, I remember a news post on the POL launcher thingy sometime mid-year stating that an exploit was brought to their attention and that they were monitoring it. Any use of it would result in severe action. So SE did warn the player base, yet people still did it.

As for deleting the duped items, here's the problem:
People used this glitch for a long time, SE went back through a years worth of logs. a year!!! Do you understand that? 1 year = 52 weeks = 365 days. And most of these people did Salvage, and other instanced events nearly every day. Thats alot of crap to look through.
As for finding the glitch, have you ever written a program? I have, in Visual Basic, C, C++, and Java. You have no f'ing idea how hard it is to find a mistake when the main body of your program contains like 100 lines of code..let alone the 1,000 bah-freaking-jillion FFXI must have. And don't get me started on the algorythms, databases, arrays, and those little freaking side-programs, i think called processes...steps...bah...the little annoying bastards you have to "call" and "throw vaariables to". SE does the best they can, but stuff will sneak through. It would take years, YEARS, to go through it all and debug the glitches. And personally, my withdrawal syptoms would kill me after 3 months...kind of like [GM]Dave chugging a gallon of that NoS + Jack Daniels concoction.

However, SE did delete the duped items. In fact they killed 2 birds with 1 stone: Delete the duped items, and punish those who exploited the glitch.
Thats like boning your girlfriend right off the bed and headbutting the burglar trying to sneak into the window.

The only people I feel sorry for, and this is very small group of people, are those were present only once while the glitch was used, but were party (not alliance) leader. They got permabanned. It sucks and I hope that person gets his account back. But I can't fault SE for their actions, "I was only following orders" only works in the military, son. But "he told me to do it" doesn't hold water there, nor did it back in the 3rd grade.

Those who were perma-banned had prior warnings, or had repeatedly abused the exploit.

As for bloodpacts in campaign, if you have that little sword next to your name you are participating on the campaign of the Allied Nations, meaning you are part of one giant alliance. Dont think so? Go near a healer npc without a tag on. Guess what happens? Nada. But go near one while wearing the tag? Bingo, you get a cure. Why? Again because that little thingy classifies you as a friendly. You see the same thing with mobs. A Quadav whm casts Protect on another Quadav next to it. Same process.

2009-01-26T20:59:00.000-08:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

I don't expect to get my account back and I'm actu...

2009-01-26T20:19:00.000-08:00

I don't expect to get my account back and I'm actually enjoying my freedom from ffxi, but I just want to say that this "GM" and all of SE is ASSUMING we all knew it was a glitch and we were purposefully exploiting it, but I can tell you from 1st hand that there were people who thought this glitch was actually intended in the developers plan for salvage.

I don't see how hard it is to understand this could be possible, look at a lot of the other game "strategies" that seem like a glitch, for example in Zhayolm Remnants 1st Floor Poroggo Madame will only spawn if the players in the alliance are completely locked out of gear and zero cell usage, so common strategy is to have all but 1 member unlock gear/use cells and then have them all simultaneously log from the zone after the Poroggo Gent has been defeated, leaving only the 1 locked member in the area to spawn the Poroggo Madame. This has glitch written all over it, how would a group even figure this out on their own?

A common rebuttal to this argument is "we knew it was an exploit because we kept it secret." I can't speak for all 1000+ players but I can speak for myself, and I highly doubt I'm alone here, I kept it a secret out of pure greed. Your gear isn't as precious once the whole world owns it, no matter how good the stats are(look at the Walahra Turban, one of the nicest stats on a head piece in the game and nobody thinks much of it because of its ease to obtain)

I also don't see how SE can hold the entire alliance accountable for the actions of the 3 party leaders. (Would SE ban an entire LS for 1 person bot-claiming Fafnirs, after all the whole LS would reap the rewards)

Imagine people who have never salvaged before joining a group that uses this glitch, there's almost no way to tell what's going on is abnormal (other than the bard songs hitting all members and that's IF the group even has a bard) And who's to say that the cross-alliance singing isn't normal for salvage? In campaign the avatars blood pacts will hit anyone in range, inside or out of the alliance. The people who aren't running the group don't see multiple treasure pools or anything out of normal, you don't even see "So-and-So obtains X-Gear" except for what is in your own party.

And lastly the main thing that irritates the punished the most is how SE over-reacted to this and banned people without any prior warnings to their account. Where is the consistency? SE has given warnings for much more severe actions.

cyber... terrorists?? wow.. just cause i want to p...

2009-01-26T17:41:00.000-08:00

cyber... terrorists?? wow.. just cause i want to play in a game without cheaters... *laughs* now who's gone overboard. i'm sorry life isn't fair this we know, a game... its a game, it should be fair. hence the playing of the game as an escape from life. they signed the agreement. they're banned, everyone... cry more.

Doesn't it say in the ToS that if you fail to repo...

2009-01-26T17:18:00.000-08:00

Doesn't it say in the ToS that if you fail to report a Glitch that you found, You are at grounds for a suspension or ban? Just for turning the other way?

Didn't know that paying $15 a month meant I am being employed by SE to fix a 5 year old game.

I would understand if they put it as "We urge you to report and bugs and/or glitches you may find in you adventures. If you would kindly lend us a hand."
But to THREATEN me as well? That's some way to use fear in their tactics o_O

The people who committed the Duping are being treated like Cyber Terrorists or something. Not from SE per say, but just by alot of the community..

You frickin' rock.

2009-01-26T16:41:00.000-08:00

You frickin' rock.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?...

2009-01-26T15:45:00.000-08:00

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=53

I'm sure they'd like to hear your discussion.

People base their actions less on what is wrong an...

2009-01-26T14:23:00.000-08:00

People base their actions less on what is wrong and far more on whether they can get away with it.

As if getting away with it makes it not wrong..

Want a great example everyone is guilty of? Exceeding the speed limit. It doesn't feel wrong, but it sure is against the law. Do you do it?

I'd like to add something to the comparison to the...

2009-01-26T14:08:00.000-08:00

I'd like to add something to the comparison to the WoW exploit.

The PVP-gear thing was something Blizzard did wrong and it was up there for absolutely everyone to see. No particular exploit was needed to purchase what turned out to be completely free gear. In that sense, it was NOT the user's fault; they were just picking up an item that the game was saying was free. Blizzard saw the mistake, fixed it and removed all the free gear.

this is not at all comparitable to the FFXI situation. If people knew that specific actions would create an excess of loot and still did it anyway, that's WRONG. They were WRONG and they knew it. Completely different case from the example Daniel threw out.

And to add something, if an exploit is found in the game, Blizzard usually gives a slap on the wrist to the first person who uses it (congrats, you found a flaw. Don't do it again OR ELSE) and if it's hard to fix, they announce it as an exploit and that their trying to fix it. If anyone USES said exploit after they announce it, BAN HAMMER.

I must agree with Drew and Paul in their response ...

2009-01-26T13:57:00.000-08:00

I must agree with Drew and Paul in their response to Daniels comment.

What these players did in, indeed, nothing sort of a violation of the terms of agreements, which all players sign, as far as I recall(It's been a while since I last played FFXI), quite a few times during registration and updating process.

Violation of these terms leads to the repercussions so thouroughly explained throughout [GM]Daves blog.

However, I do not think it fair to slander Daniel by calling him partially retarded for posting such a comment. People are, as frequent gamers and, in lack of a better word, geeks are well aware, idiots, which, unavoidably, leads to such idiotic actions. Note that by calling them idiots I don't necessarily call them bad people. I know al ot of idiots, some that I even like, from time to time.

This is, as Daniel says, not the first time this happens, not only in MMORPGs such as FFXI and WoW. During the prime of Diablo 2, these kind of glitches appeared all the time and people, yes the idiots earlier mentioned, exploited it to its outmost extent, before it was fixed.

People, especially on the internet, will always be idiots, it's just their way of channeling it that varies.

I'm just sorry that Dave didn't get to add his per...

2009-01-26T08:08:00.000-08:00

I'm just sorry that Dave didn't get to add his personal flair to the deletion and banning of all those people. They all deserved at least a little torture first.

Maybe a dragon duplicating glitch of some kind?

In response to Daniel, I don't know if you're just...

2009-01-26T06:02:00.000-08:00

In response to Daniel, I don't know if you're just trying to be flame bait, are partially retarded, or possibly both, but to entertain myself, here's my rebuttal.

What does SE expect? I'm sure they did expect people to exploit bugs. However, they also implemented a system to deal with such cases, ban the people involved. As far as "the players job to become the best they can" goes, I'm pretty sure doing the best one can doesn't involve cutting corners to get there qualifies.

Want a real world example? Little Jimmy walks into to a store owned by a near-blind man. Little Jimmy decides to take the five finger discount on the goodies he likes. Little Jimmy repeatedly steals things from the store, until one day, the man finally catches him. Little Jimmy's response, "But no one told me stealing from you was breaking the law!" Of course, this may seem a little exaggerated, but it's a lot closer than you might think. Even though no one told Little Jimmy not to steal from the store, he's pretty sure it's breaking the law, despite his abundant pool of ignorance. No one from SE specifically told players to avoid abusing this bug, but players still knew that any abuse of exploits is breaking the rules.

As far as your WoW example goes, the people in FFXI tend to be a little bit more intelligent. With the free PvP gear (in Wow), you can safely assume there were at least 20 people spamming the General and Trade channels about it, bringing some obvious attention to it. However, with the dupe exploit, it began with a select group of people and gradually grew outwards. Since most of the major endgame linkshell used this particular bug, anyone who knew feared spilling the beans due to what it may do to their reputation with means into staying, or getting into, a high quality endgame linkshell. This allowed the bug to be kept under wraps rather tightly, with only a few minor, yet controlled hiccups. Also, SE probably did figure out about the exploit earlier than just a few weeks ago, however, the bug was most likely due to a glitch occurring in a complex system, and SE needed to make sure that when they fixed the problem, there wouldn't be more problems that occurred. On the other hand, WoW's problem was just a simple and minor data swap.

Lastly, you said they overreacted. Or maybe, they were trying to set a stern example for anyone who decides trying to push their luck exploiting a bug in the future. You also said that they should people temporary bans, and just delete the items they got? Ok, so instead of simply banning everyone, you want SE to scan through the inventories of the people involved and delete the drops they got from the bug? Seriously? Not only would that take a much longer time to do, it would also lead to people claiming that they some lost items, they never really had, as well as some cases where players who never did use the exploit lose items they did have. That'd leave room for an even bigger conflict, not to mention the people who did receive the temp bans thinking that the punishment wasn't that bad, and would probably just search for the next exploit.

So in conclusion, yes getting ban does suck more than Taiwan hooker, but it's not as if there wasn't reason. Even though I've never had a character banned from FFXI, I have in other games. When it happens though, I know it was for a reason, and suck it up. So stop bitching about it.