Comments on Bannable Offenses: When Good People Go Bad - Vol. 2

Didn't they actually have an update so you cou...

2010-11-04T07:29:37.054-07:00

Didn't they actually have an update so you could play your game windowed or full screen?

Been a while. Either way I used a windower. Funny the one time I bumped into a GM we had a chat about. He was like we don't ban people for windower, hell I use a windower. Made me LOL.

The fact that the game coudln't be windowed was a huge flaw. Wonder if they made the same mistake with XII?

And this is why I play World of Warcraft even thou...

2007-07-17T10:38:00.000-07:00

And this is why I play World of Warcraft even though it's a worse game. I'd never use speed hax or bots or anything else that affected actual game play, but if the game's user interface is stupid enough that it won't let me play in windowed mode/move my portrait around the screen/open my mail with less than four mouse clicks I refuse to believe I'm a bad person for telling the developers they are idiots and downloading a mod that changes the look and feel of the user interface. These don't give me an advantage over other players unless not being incredibly f'king frustrated is an advantage. Okay, they give me a huge advantage over other people, in that I'm not so bored out of my mind that I throw my computer through the window, but I'd think the company would be happy about that because I'm still playing and the bored, frustrated player probably isn't.

2007-02-22T09:31:00.000-08:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

If you want to get technical, FFXI violates some o...

2006-10-02T06:35:00.000-07:00

If you want to get technical, FFXI violates some of the Windows EULA, which specifies that programs are not allowed to override the windows key/alt+tab features of windows.
Um, sorry but it doesn't. You can alt-tab just fine or alt escape just fine in FFXI. The problem is that FFXI then kills your connection to the server because it's lost full screen mode. So it isn't actualy violating the windows certif thingy on how programs are supposed to behave. It's just got some nasty behaviour from a human interface point of view. Not from a windows point of view.

If you mean those cheats come in the form of progr...

2006-09-29T06:09:00.000-07:00

If you mean those cheats come in the form of programs you have to start after FFXI is loaded, thus requiring a form of Windower in order to alt-tab, then fine. I suppose if you look at it that way Windower becomes some sort of "gateway drug" for the hackers of the world. 'Course, that makes about as much sense as saying owning a baseball bat is one step away from Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

I've never so much as looked for FleeTool or whatever, so I can't say much about how to actually use them. No interest in learning how to, either. But just because Windower is required does not mean that Windower or the people who make it are doing it for the express purpose of making game-breaking programs like FleeTool usable (although they certainly are doing it to make things against the ToS possible, like alt-tabbing or screenshots... which I suppose makes Fraps "cheating" too, doesn't it?).

And you're going to have to do better than "half-informed bullshit" if you want to actually get your point across. Proving me wrong is generally a good place to start.

Ok, a lot of the omgwtfwindowerusersgotohell peopl...

2006-09-28T09:33:00.000-07:00

Ok, a lot of the omgwtfwindowerusersgotohell people seem to be under some sort of misunderstanding... things like FleeTool, FFXIAssist, WarpTool or whatever the hell it was, are entirely seperate from Windower (at least the version of it I've seen). They don't come bundled with it. They aren't even related that I know of.

And you also seem to be mixing two different kinds of third party programs.

1) Programs that are purely client-side and do not effect your in-game behavior at all, such as Windower (and I think FFXIAssist, although I don't really know what all that does).

2) Programs that alter your character's behavior in ways that break the rules of the in-game world. FleeTool, WarpTool, etc.

If you think these are the same in degree of "cheating", I expect to see you turning in your Driver's License to be revoked next time you go one mile per hour over the speed limit.

I won't argue that Windower is "allowed", since it's explicitly against the ToS. I will argue that it has absolutely zero in-game affect. It doesn't change stats, doesn't change mobs, doesn't change ANYTHING. Even the somewhat more egregious TParty doesn't actually change anything within the game itself. It makes information that you could easily get by other means automatically available on the client computer. Absolutely ZERO impact on other people.

Now, if you want to flame the people using the second class of programs, go right ahead. I'll be there with you.

The difference? One changes the game and effects other people, one doesn't. If you can't tell the difference, then perhaps /you/ are the one who needs the help.

And for all the people shouting the SE targets Windower... have you ever seen them release an announcement regarding it specifically? I remember one for the WarpTool, haven't seen one for Windower. Changes to their internal code during an update messing with programs expecting a very specific version of that code /does not/ equate to intentionally breaking the other program. They certainly aren't going out of their way to keep it running, but I haven't seen any indication that they are intentionally aiming to break it.

Look Im to lazy to put more on my computer then I ...

2006-09-28T07:48:00.000-07:00

Look Im to lazy to put more on my computer then I have so I don't have windower. But just because it's agsint the TOS dosen't mean it's a cheat, it just means your breaking a rule.
Now that inst to say you can't go window mode to use 3rd party shit to cheat but either way there are some who will cheat one way or another.

Sigh...For some reason I don't understand, the blo...

2006-09-27T22:04:00.000-07:00

Sigh...

For some reason I don't understand, the blog won't let me publish tonight's update.

It's done and I hit publish, but it sticks at 0% and doesn't change.

If anyone reads this, the update will be posted just as soon as I figure this out.

-[GM]Dave

Just because something goes against the ToS, that ...

2006-09-27T18:53:00.000-07:00

Just because something goes against the ToS, that does not mean it is cheating except in the simple fact that it is violating a rule. Unlike many plug-ins, etc, Windower simply allows a PC user to use one of their system's key features, multi-tasking. Personally, I'm quite fed up with the idea that my system has to dedicate itself 100% to a game such as this.

So they want to even the playing field huh? Would make sense except, apparently they haven't considered the large number of console gamers that would have a computer available, nearby or not. Besides it is entirely unfair to think that a player would use multi-tasking only for a game play advantage. Perhaps if it were a fast paced shoort or something similar I would not even consider it an issue, but the fact of the matter is, FFXI is an MMO and a game of which can have a lot of down time for one reason or another. It's my PC and I shouldn't be told how I can or can not use it.

Yeah, I really don't believe it is to be chating when I want to take some time to cheak a few other things online, change some music, chat with someone real quick, etc. whilst playing any MMO whatsoever.

Now for those who use bots, etc? Fuck 'em, I don't think anyone would miss them =P

Wow. This is really greatTigerWolf said...Hate to ...

2006-09-27T17:54:00.000-07:00

Wow. This is really great
TigerWolf said...
Hate to tell you retards, third party software is NOT illegal. Sure it's violation of the ToS but a game's ToS and EULA are not binding in a court of law.
So? You don't have any rights in a MMO except for what is grated by the owner of the game. Period. Nothing is argued in a court of law.

TigerWolf said...
If you want to get technical, FFXI violates some of the Windows EULA, which specifies that programs are not allowed to override the windows key/alt+tab features of windows.
Uhm no it don't. EULA means End User License Agreement. It is something for the User to agree to. Not the programs run on it.

I just want to know how i can type in bold when i ...

2006-09-27T07:40:00.000-07:00

I just want to know how i can type in bold when i speak to a GM itg. My two most recent experiences speaking with them had me fuming, but no direct way to show my frustration...

But i agree. If i were to get banned for using Windower, that's when i start playing another game.

See? told you guys, high on ban fumes. If SE keeps...

2006-09-27T06:28:00.000-07:00

See? told you guys, high on ban fumes. If SE keeps this up, Dave will be in real danger of starting to like his bosses. They've been uping the quantity and frequency of these mass bannings. If you check out the forums on the major sites, you'll see people have discovered the developer's blog for FFXI. There are indications that SE is forming a group of developers/techs who's sole purpose is to track down and ban RMT and cheaters. SE'll have some digital SWAT/Ninja team to enforce it's ToS. I can just see [GM]Dave sending them a case of his favorite whisky for chrismass once they start sending him ban-lists on a regular basis.

I have /never/ heard of anyone getting banned for ...

2006-09-27T05:47:00.000-07:00

I have /never/ heard of anyone getting banned for using the Windower. I think SE realizes that a) it's harmless as third-party tools go and b) that anywhere from 50-75% of players use it, and most of those who don't have no need due to a second box/laptop.

I can understand why some folks would use 3rd Part...

2006-09-27T01:21:00.000-07:00

I can understand why some folks would use 3rd Party stuff. Vana'diel can be a cruel, cruel world. But you gotta respect the ToS. They're there for a reason.

That's precisely the case, Kale. Due to the simult...

2006-09-27T00:19:00.000-07:00

That's precisely the case, Kale. Due to the simultaneous running of FFXI on Xbox-360, PS2, and PC, SE tries to "level the playing field" by forcing the PC version into full-screen mode. If you lose focus on FFXI for whatever reason (AIM popup, ctrl-alt-del, alt-tab, whatever) the game crashes. Windower at its core addresses that issue. Of course, it has since come bundled with other plugins like Tparty (tracks TP and MP of party and alliance members), BloodPace (tracks recast timers on BPs, I think), and others. Most if not all are purely client-side changes of the sort you'd find with WoW interface mods, but they are still technically third-party software, as is the Windower itself, and thus against the ToS. There are many and varied reasons for using the program, but it is still technically illegal. However, from what I've seen it's the Vana'diel equivalent of driving 75 in a 70 zone.

Good work GM's. And I'm sure that these bannings ...

2006-09-26T22:41:00.000-07:00

Good work GM's. And I'm sure that these bannings also got some Gil Sellers and other annoying anti-intelligent acts of stupidity.

Good ol' GM Dave justice! :D

2006-09-26T21:06:00.000-07:00

Good ol' GM Dave justice! :D